- So I've been online and I've met a man
Downloaded from YTS.MX
and we're taking our relationship to the next level
and we're admitting we're boyfriend girlfriend.
Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX
So I never thought there'd be guys out there
who are straight, they like girls,
but they just want a chick with a dick,
isn't that the weirdest?
- [Justin] Yes, does it worry you
'cause you're thinking of getting rid of your...
- Oh no he doesn't mind that.
- [Justin] Are you worried he might be gay?
- I thought that, but he's not, so yeah.
I'm not trying to look like a woman,
I think I am a woman,
an unfortunate one to have a penis, hairy, and fat.
I've learned through the internet
there are guys out there who love me
that I have a penis.
But I want to be a woman with a vagina.
I want to be a heterosexual woman
being loved by a heterosexual male.
(jazzy organ music)
- [Justin] I met Graham in Whangarei a few years earlier
through a friend of a friend.
- Oh, pretty.
- [Justin] He told me that he was planning
on becoming a woman
and invited me to document his journey.
At the time,
I didn't realize I was committing to five years of filming.
On the day we start,
Graham is living in a sleepout
at the back of his parents' house,
but has not yet told his family about his plans.
In fact, he's not even chosen a female name.
- Elizabeth Taylor, doing a little bit of light research.
Cindy Crawford, Basic Face.
- [Justin] What for, research for...
- Just on fabulousness.
I don't know, women in the 50's
were far more gorgeous and glamorous
than what they are nowadays, really.
I mean look at it, she's gorgeous.
- [Justin] Is that what you'd like to look like?
- Oh God no, I could never look that good.
- [Justin] But what if you could look like anything,
who would it be?
What would it be?
- The one, the only, the Audrey.
She's just the best.
As you can see, we look nothing alike.
- [Justin] So you haven't decided
when you're gonna tell...
- Maybe Christmas.
- [Justin] Christmas day?
- Oh God no.
Mind you, they'll say, well at least you got us a present.
- [Justin] So you do fear it,
it is a scary thing?
- Oh, beyond petrified, it really is.
- [Justin] Whangarei is New Zealand's most northern city,
but with a population of only 50,000 people,
it's possibly not the easiest place
to be non-conforming.
There are no gay bars here,
and at 25 years old,
Graham says that he's never even met
another transgendered person.
- I act all self-assured
and absolutely out there
and I am, but at the same time,
I'm scared about what people might think or say
now that I'm making such a larger, more obvious statement
what I'm trying to do.
I've chosen the name Ashleigh,
and I've tried to tell people,
try calling me Ashleigh,
try calling me she,
'cause I thought at first, oh no just call me Graham,
call me he, but if I think about it
if I really want to start doing what I wanna be
I have to start living like a woman as a woman.
I told my mum, and I cried,
and I don't know why, but you do,
and I said I wanna become a woman.
And she goes oh, then we had a hug.
Which is odd 'cause we're not a hugging family, anyway.
She told dad for me
and I haven't spoken to him since about it,
we haven't even bridged it.
I mean I'm wearing makeup and stuff.
- I had a suspicion for a long time
that he was a bit different from other boys.
But my wife, she was a bit tearful
for a couple of days afterwards.
But it didn't affect me like that,
I just sort of take it in me stride.
- [Justin] Why was your wife tearful?
- [Shirley] She'd brought him up as a son, I suppose.
- At work, they still call me Graham.
They just can't seem to understand the difference
between a gay person and a transgender.
- [Justin] Do you explain that to them?
- You try and like you say,
just think of me as a chick,
like with a deformity,
or not, well literally a deformity,
'cause I'm not a man wanting a man,
I'm a woman wanting a man.
And they go oh yeah, I get it now.
I just think they have these lapses of forgetfulness.
I think once I start getting things done,
I'm gonna notice the change
and wanna make more changes, you know?
It's just that I'm, I still don't like dresses
'cause they don't suit me.
I don't like singlet tops
'cause I'm too fat as it is.
Just like a fat woman would.
I prefer pants any day
I want to be considered really attractive.
I wanna become a model,
I thought being a model would be fun.
I want to have beautiful big breasts
that a guy would love.
I want to be a heterosexual woman
being loved by a heterosexual male.
Not even have any doubts in him,
like oh that's an odd-looking woman.
My fear is I won't be passable.
I don't want to look like a man,
'cause I've seen some,
and there are just some men that wanna be women
but they just don't look like women
and my fear is I won't look like a female.
- What's your plans in the long term?
- [Ashleigh] I wanna be a woman.
- In terms of having surgery?
- [Ashleigh] Yeah everything.
- You might well find if we increase the dose
the maximum sort of dose
is the both estrogen and spironolactone,
that you will get less hair growth,
more breast development.
You might psychologically feel better,
and you'll get a reduction in penile size as well,
because you're trying to almost put someone
into a eunuch state.
- Estrogen, female.
And TA, that is the testosterone suppressant.
So this stops the little guys downstairs
and this is to make me get pretty.
- [Justin] How do you know
that you will be happy with your body
if you had breasts and a vagina?
- It's just the fact that I'll be acknowledged
as a woman, which is what I wanna be,
and to be a woman, these things are important.
I don't like being a man.
But as I said, I've never been terribly masculine.
- [Justin] You think it might've stopped you
from being able to to be comfortable
getting into a relationship with somebody?
- Definitely because the relationship I want
is a heterosexual relationship
where I love a man
who loves me back as a woman.
- [Justin] And you'll be in a relationship
with a straight man, not a gay man?
- No not at all, 'cause I'm not gay.
I know I'm a straight woman
but for me it isn't a sexuality issue,
it's a body issue.
I always knew as a child growing up.
I used to play in my mum's clothes in secret,
wear the shoes.
And when I was even younger
mum used to say...
- But transgender's different from transvestite
and guys that like to dress up as girls.
- [Ashleigh] Yeah.
- I have to say when I first met you,
I immediately jumped to a conclusion
that you were someone who was confused,
and that's what I thought.
- Really?
- Yeah, it was yeah.
- Confused?
- Yeah, someone who's just a bit mixed up about it
and that you would eventually really regret
the whole thing.
And that was before I knew you, though,
and that was just a total knee-jerk reaction.
- [Justin] When you met Graham,
did you think that he was just an effeminate gay man?
- No, I don't know what I thought.
I didn't think he was gay.
He, oh you made me say he.
I didn't think...
- [Justin] But we're talking about Graham.
- At that stage, yeah, no,
I didn't think he was gay,
and I wasn't sure what I thought at that point.
I guess sometime in the last year,
she's totally female to me now, totally.
- [Justin] In reality,
before she can be totally female,
Ashleigh has a long list of physical changes
that she wants to undertake,
including major laser hair removal,
breast implants,
and genital reconstruction.
- [Doctor] You can tolerate that?
- [Ashleigh] I can.
- [Doctor] You sure?
- [Ashleigh] Mm hmm.
- 'Cause if you don't complain I just keep going.
- That's fine.
- Bearable?
- Yeah, I'll make it bearable.
- [Doctor] We are done.
- Move it fucker.
- [Justin] So how long's this drive
from home to get the electrolysis?
What's the round trip take?
- Probably four hours.
But in this car, six.
- [Justin] The 15 minute laser treatment
costs Ashleigh $200.
And she's been told that she'll need
at least ten treatments
on any part of her body
where there is unwanted hair.
It's becoming clear
that she'll never realize her dream
of transforming into a woman
without a large sum of cash.
And on her wages as a barista,
Ashleigh fears she'll never get there.
- I'm actually literally freezing my ass off right now.
- [Justin] So you usually wear a body suit, do you?
- Or a bra, depending on the jean.
These are kind of like a snug fit.
- [Justin] You have to tuck yourself in down below, do you?
Between your legs?
- Yeah, well no not really,
it just squishes it up.
- [Justin] Is there an art to that?
- No I don't tuck or anything,
'cause I'm all flabby,
I can sort of,
and my penis is shrinking
so it's kind of like you just stick it on.
- [Justin] Really,
is that what happens with hormones?
- Yeah yeah yeah.
- [Justin] To finance her transformation,
Ashleigh needs to raise
around $30,000.
However, one of her brothers is looking
to start a business,
and offers Ashleigh the opportunity
to open her own cafe.
She's hoping that this might be a way
to raise the money.
- It's a complete dump.
- [Justin] What's the arrangement?
- We're partners in it.
He brings in all the money
and I bring in the four years experience
in running a popular cafe
here in Whangarei.
It's like, 'cause people are saying
how are you gonna raise the money?
And we'd joke, I'd have to work the streets
to raise the money
but in reality, it's almost the only way
a lot of people can probably do it
and it's really sad.
- [Justin] Ashleigh decides to name the business Narnia,
after the fictional world
featured in the fantasy books by CS Lewis.
- But this will be the entranceway.
You'll walk in here,
and then around this doorway
we're gonna have a big wardrobe,
'cause you know, Chronicles of Narnia,
you walk through the wardrobe,
and as you walk through,
they'll have a fur coat on either side
as in the storybook,
and then you walk in through here
and you're in the land of Narnia.
And we're gonna have themes to Peter Pan,
Alice in Wonderland, Harry Potter
and just adolescent storybooks.
And this is the main dining area.
Someone suggested,
oh we could do like a painted yellow brick road
up to the counter and things like that.
I'm gonna have a big clock in here
but it's gonna be a big pocket watch,
and I'm gonna drop like some big chandeliers
I want more to over the top ones
but over here on this side
I'm just gonna have hundreds and hundreds of fairy lights
just dripping all across the ceiling.
That is my cafe, it's gonna be cool.
- [Justin] Do you think you get to live
in a bit of a fantasy world, being...
- Yeah I suppose,
I've never thought of it like that,
I suppose so.
- [Justin] Ashleigh is the youngest
in a family of 13 children.
As a boy growing up she says
that people often mistook her for a girl,
so she maintains that it's no surprise to her family
that she's chosen to transform into a woman.
Even though they never discuss it.
- [Justin] Did you all just think
that she was gay,
when she was growing up?
- No I don't think we ever saw her as gay,
no just feminine.
- Oh that's gold, that is gold.
- [Justin] Is there anyone in the family
who is having a problem
with Ashleigh being transgendered?
- If I was brutally honest,
I suppose to a degree, we're all having a problem with it.
I mean, literally brother Graham, physically,
so there's probably little snippets in everybody
that are sort of thinking
that's my brother, how can it be happening?
- Breasts.
- [Justin] Do you know what kind of breasts you want?
- I have no idea, big ones.
- [Justin] Really?
- Well I like all of them.
- Hey Marilyn, I was wondering
if I could speak to someone about breast surgery.
Enlarge them.
Alright, and what else did I need to know?
I'm pre-op transgender,
that won't make any difference into like the tissue
around my breasts and everything that, yeah?
Oh okay cool, and have they been quite happy?
That's awesome, thank you so much
for all your help.
Great, bye bye.
Not a problem, they've done some transgenders before,
but it's between $8500 and $10,000.
The price depends on when you get down there,
I don't know why.
What's that, 100 dollars a week?
Oh my God, that's 10 weeks just for a thousand.
- [Justin] That's only 5,200 in a year.
- Yeah I know, I have to go faster.
Oh that's right, 'cause Lindsay said
he was willing to help out,
the business, that's the purpose of owning a business,
to help out with these sorts of things as well.
It's all still very scary,
I'm actually really really petrified.
- [Justin] Well what are you worried about?
- I don't know how much food to make
or how little or too much, you know?
- [Justin] By opening day,
the cafe isn't looking like Ashleigh had dreamed.
- Oh wow this is cool.
- Oh thank you,
it's still sort of work in progress,
first day.
Good morning, Cafe Narnia,
how can I help you?
- [Justin] But the reality
of the first day's takings is encouraging.
- Was it a good opening?
- Hell yes,
I thought we'd just be doing nothing.
They're getting there.
But not quickly enough.
It's always the way,
never quickly enough.
- [Justin] So tell me, when you look at yourself
in the mirror,
do you see a woman
or do you see a transgender person?
- I think I look good,
so I see a chick.
I just see a hairy, big-looking chick,
who looks like a rugby player, but that's fine.
- She doesn't like to be introduced
as a transgender
because it's a little bit in your face,
it brings a teach into it,
and she doesn't like having a teaching brought
to being transgender.
And it took me a little while to understand that
because at first I was like, but you are,
so obviously not male, but really not female
at that point either
and so there needed to be some kind of introduction
for people to know,
we have to say he or she in front of her,
you know what I mean?
- [Justin] How would you respond
if somebody hits on you?
- If guys are attracted to me,
usually it's sleazy,
like it just comes across as a big gross, I don't know.
Not that all guys are like that.
'Cause my fear is
some guys might have a fetish for transgender,
and therefore they just assume
they're like every other one
that's out clubbing and drugging
and life is turning into a spiral mess,
and I don't know easy prey or something,
just for a sexual thing
more than anything else
and yeah that kind of grosses me out.
But I've had one night stands and stuff.
- [Justin] Did you enjoy the sex?
- Well I only get blow jobs.
I didn't want to, I don't like anal sex, so yeah.
- [Justin] So you didn't get any pleasure?
- Oh yeah I did, it was still fun,
they're still doing something sexual,
it was great fun, I love it,
I'm really good at it too.
But yeah so um, I don't know,
it was fun 'cause it was doing something
as a female, you know?
When you're sucking off a guy's dick,
or to me, that means you're a female, you know.
- When Fiona Clark embarked
upon this particular project in the 1970's
it was a hugely controversial exhibition
about transsexuals and transvestites
and people who are differently gendered
from that we considered in our conventional society
at the time to be normal.
And so the only other way of dealing with those people
is to marginalize them.
Many of the transgender people you see in these photographs
are dead now, dead way before their time,
their lives thrown away unnecessarily
because of an uncaring society, frankly.
- [Justin] The Go Girl exhibition
is intended to be a celebration of transgendered women,
but for Ashleigh, the exhibition heightens her belief
that she's different from other transgenders.
- Those tragic transgenders,
they make transgender a hard thing,
I think they make it an issue.
Their family hate them,
or no one loves me, I've gotta work the streets,
they think it is so much
that it is such a hardship
that they are completely isolated,
no one can understand them,
but then they're creating that bigger deal,
and it's not the big issue that it can be.
- [Justin] Despite her negative view
of the transgender community,
Ashleigh maintains that she wants to undergo
full gender reassignment surgery.
Even though she's had little contact
with anyone who's been through the procedure.
I suggest to Ashleigh that she calls
the transgender support group in Auckland
to investigate attending
one of their monthly meetings.
- This is Ashleigh Tadman in Whangarei,
how are you?
When's the next meeting?
This Tuesday coming?
Oh cool, is there any chance I can meet you
before I actually go to a meeting?
Like just for a coffee or something,
it's just that some of the people I've met,
they're quite down on themselves
and their families don't like them they say,
and all that sort of thing
and that's not my case at all, so.
I won't say I like normality
but before I go meeting lots of people
I'd probably like to meet one just to get an idea,
I'm sorry is that cool?
Then you name a place
and I'll just meet you there for a coffee.
Okay that's cool, whereabouts do you live?
Yep.
Oh superrific, okay then if things come up
I'll ring and cancel or change or whatever,
so that'll be cool.
See you later, bye bye.
Freak of nature.
I'm not about to go their house,
what if it's icky and gross and unclean?
I think, when I think if this was me,
I think I'd want to meet people who'd done it.
Ashleigh seems to be actively not seeking out
anybody else that's been there.
- Could be, she's always said to me
that she's always thought of herself as female
and so she didn't feel that she was,
if you like transgender or ever a male,
do you know what I mean?
She just had the wrong body parts.
She's always been a female, yeah.
- [Justin] Around town, Ashleigh has started
to become known as a local personality.
She gets asked to host an amateur comedy night
and jumps at the opportunity.
- I figured it was a way of saving 15 bucks.
- [Justin] How you doing, good?
- Yeah, I'm petrified.
It's like Granny Central.
- [Justin] How do you think the grannies
will respond to you being transgender?
- [Ashleigh] I'm sure they won't even notice.
- [Justin] You're not gonna mention it in any of your...
- Oh wait there's my phone.
No, God no.
See I don't think of myself of transgender
to make a point of it.
I mean Georgina Beyer has
and look what's happened to her,
she's just known as that transgender MP,
So if I go out there and start
rattling on or making transgender comments
or anything, then that's sort of
setting me up that that's what I am,
I don't want to be stigmatized like that.
To even make it an issue
makes it an issue, does that make sense?
'Cause I feel like anti-gay parades,
because it's like, you gotta get over it,
I don't see heterosexual parades.
It just seems like
if you're gonna create exclusion
then you will be excluded.
- [Justin] I think there's nothing wrong
with recognizing people's differences
and celebrating them.
- Oh yeah absolutely,
that I can agree with.
But a parade about I'm a gay person,
that just kind of seems stupid.
- [Justin] Well it's showing pride,
isn't it, that's the point?
- I suppose, but it's over.
Surely it's, okay we know gay people are out there,
can we move on?
- [Justin] Yeah but it's not completely over,
there's a lot of people around here
that would be uncomfortable with transgender.
- I don't have a problem,
I never run into it.
- [Justin] You will.
- Not really, it depends on how you go about it.
- [Justin] Even one of your brothers
is really uncomfortable with you.
- With me, that's fine.
- [Justin] Yeah with the transgender part of it.
- Yeah I know but that's just because
he doesn't understand 'cause he's a retard.
- [Man] We're about I would say
I'm imagining five minutes away.
- Yeah that's cool.
- [Man] I'm not sure exactly, I'll get a ring on the phone.
- Alright, good evening, hello everyone.
(cheering)
- [Guy] Go Narnia!
- Hey, here's a fan of my cafe.
I ran into a couple of lady friends of mine,
they're lovely people,
one kissed me on the cheek.
That's fine, okay, honey you look flippy,
if anyone thinks I'm lesbian, I am not, okay?
I prefer the pole so much more than the hole, alright?
- [Justin] Ashleigh has now been taking female hormones
for over two years.
Her body is unlikely to transform much further
without surgery
which she says she's still saving for,
but something has changed.
- Stockings, bras.
- [Justin] Ashleigh has started to wear dresses.
- Socks, course I don't dress like this for work,
I'm just in jeans and a T-shirt.
Some of it's kind of a bit nunnery though,
what do you think?
Nunnery?
- [Justin] Do you wonder why
you weren't dressing like this sooner?
- I guess I wasn't ready for it,
but I don't know, it was getting over the fear
to do it, and I've done it,
and it's just so much better.
- [Justin] How'd your mum respond
when she first saw you in that dress?
- Actually she was a bit like,
oh, oh, don't go out looking like that.
It's a matter about being comfortable with yourself,
but how you'd always rely on other people accepting you.
I didn't want to be one of those desperate cyber people
but alas, I'm now one one of those desperate cyber people.
So yeah.
- [Justin] Do you think you're desperate?
- [Ashleigh] To go on the internet looking for someone, yes.
- [Justin] So you're wanting to go on some dates
with some guys?
- [Ashleigh] Yes, it'd be nice to go out with a guy,
who's like I said, I've got lots of male friends
but no one special.
- [Justin] You're advertising yourself as a transgender?
- [Ashleigh] Yeah, I have to.
- [Justin] Have you met anyone?
- [Ashleigh] No not yet.
On the internet you can be
sort of faceless to someone to begin with.
You can literally say exactly what you want.
You can sort of tell who's a bit sleazy and weird
and who seems like just normal,
but inevitably there's always a sexual innuendo
with a lot of them.
There's one or two that have emailed me
and they seem really friendly and normal
but I always want to be contacted by them
because I just don't want any bad responses,
'cause I don't want to freak out
like a transgender just emailed me.
- [Justin] What kind of guys
are responding to you?
- Well a lot of them don't have photos,
I'm not too sure,
but they're young, they're old-ish.
- [Justin] Do they all call themselves straight?
- Yeah, that's what I like.
- [Justin] Would you like somebody that was honest and kind
and a good person
even if you didn't they're physically attractive?
- Well for me personally,
being that I'm not physically perfect for a man,
I'm not yet a woman,
it's like who am I to judge what someone looks like?
If they're willing to like me and stuff.
- [Justin] So you are prepared to compromise
because you feel that a man would be compromising
by dating you.
- I suppose yes.
- Although I say she's very confident in being female
I don't think she's as confident as she displays.
I guess because she was struggling with these issues
through puberty
and she wasn't doing what the rest of us were doing
which was playing with the other
playing with the partners we were looking for.
And so she is really innocent and naive
in the ways of relationships and the world.
- [Justin] Ashleigh's friend Maria said to me,
Ashleigh really wants to get married one day.
Could you imagine that?
Would you be giving her away?
- Well, it might be a quiet wedding.
- [Justin] Why do you say that?
- Well I dunno, but I suppose I could,
yes I could do that.
- [Ashleigh] I've never been close with my family,
I don't agree with any of their choices in their lives,
they don't agree with any of mine.
- I think she has some really intense sadness sometimes,
and she never shows that,
but you see it sometimes.
- [Justin] Ashleigh said to me once
that she's lived a lie so long
that she's just so used to performing and being,
I just wonder if anybody really knows her.
- It's amazing 'cause in this interview,
I'm starting to say how much do I know about her choices?
(phone ringing)
- [Justin] So tell me what kind of guy is this?
- He's 22, I met him online.
He's a heterosexual male, he plays rugby,
he's a builder, he's really cool
and he just wants to hold me and hug me.
(phone ringing)
Sorry.
Oh, send me another pic please, cutie.
It's like a fixation with,
they wanna see photos of you constantly.
I don't know, for guys it's very visual I guess,
I dunno.
I can't believe you can see everything did you?
- [Justin] I can't see, what did you say.
- Oh thank God,
I just said here's a picture of me I took the other night.
- [Justin] Let's see the picture?
- No.
- [Justin] Why, was it, do you sending him something sexy?
- Yeah.
- [Justin] What was the picture of?
- Just me, looking at myself.
They're straight men, they say they're not gay,
and that's true, it's just a little facet of them
that they find attractive with a woman.
To me, I didn't think there were guys out there
who would be interested in it like that,
and it's really cool
but at the end of the day I want my vagina,
it's not about having sex with a penis.
It's hard to explain but I want that feeling
of being a woman having made love to.
So yeah.
- [Justin] So are you scared
about meeting some of these guys?
- No, because I still chat away,
I mean I'm 29 and a virgin,
but I know about the birds and the bees and stuff,
I'm aware of sex and everything about it,
I'm not estranged to any of it,
I just haven't done any of it, so yeah.
- [Justin] So you consider yourself to be a virgin.
- Yeah, technically I am.
- [Justin] Why?
- Because my penis hasn't penetrated anything.
Isn't that what losing your virginity is?
(soft piano music)
- [Justin] So tell me who is this guy,
how old is, and what's his...
- Um, well, he's 22,
he lives here in Auckland,
and yeah I just met him online.
I'm so excited about seeing him,
I haven't seen him in two whole weeks.
- [Justin] You're quite taken with him, aren't you?
- Slightly, yes.
He likes me, you know,
he's not like,
I've had so many male friends and stuff
and it's always like
they're just too scared to go that next level with me,
whereas he's not.
I'm scared of Scott seeing me like this though,
this look rather heinous.
Oh my God the very first time I met him,
I was in my bathrobe with a towel on my head
and no makeup on so.
(knocking)
This must be him.
God I hope it's him.
Hello!
How are you?
Sorry you've caught me halfway getting ready.
(kissing)
I missed you.
Come in come in come in come in.
I missed you.
That night I didn't care about anyone else
and we just stuck together the whole night.
Normally when you go clubbing
you're checking out everyone
checking to see who's watching you,
but I only had eyes for him,
it was really weird.
Like he'd walk behind me,
and he'd say oh they were looking at us.
Even though the clubbing was fun and phenomenal,
the best part is always getting home
and then you get to snuggle.
I really enjoyed that.
It's bizarre, it's horrible emotions and feelings.
I just feel I hope I'm not inadequate for him.
I'm in constant fear of him not liking me,
which is really bizarre isn't it?
- [Justin] Inadequate in what way?
- I don't know, 'cause I'm not.
I dress up like a girl and stuff,
and I act and look like one,
I'm, I do, but at the same time,
you just always wonder is it good enough?
Does it makes sense?
Well I never used to think that.
- [Justin] Now that she's dating,
Ashleigh's desire for surgery
is greater than ever,
but she still doesn't have the money
to fund a full gender reassignment operation.
However, Ashleigh has come up with a plan
that in the interim, might make her less masculine.
- I'm gonna go see Tony,
he's a urologist,
and we're gonna look at just removing my testicles.
I'm having a consultation with him
about getting rid of my testicles
so I don't produce any more testosterone.
- [Justin] And do you think that he'll do it?
- I don't see why he won't,
he's done it for guys who have cancer.
- [Justin] How much would this cost?
- I have no idea.
We're probably talking thousands,
everything costs thousands, so yeah.
- [Justin] Is that why you haven't got anything done yet?
- No, all my money at the moment
is going into my struggling business, so yeah.
- I understand that you're interested
in having your testicles removed, is that right?
- Yeah is that alright?
I presume testosterone is my sex drive.
- [Tony] Correct.
- So without it I won't have a sex drive?
- [Tony] You will tend to lose your sex drive, yeah.
- But when I'm stimulated,
I'll get in the mood, wouldn't I?
- Yes you will do.
I would want to if I could
to see some letter or something from a counselor,
psychologist, psychiatrist or something.
- Oh yeah, psychological reports and all that.
- 'Cause the fear from my point of view
is that you might change your mind though.
What happens if you change your mind?
- No I don't think I'll be changing my mind,
there's no fear of that.
It's just very degrading being called illness
and psychological problem,
it's just like, there's nothing wrong with me,
I just want to get a vagina,
I'm not insane for God sakes.
- We're trying to make sure that
we're not making a mistake. - Oh no absolutely.
- And we don't want to make a mistake on your behalf.
- [Justin] So you think you're gonna have to go through
the psych analysis?
- If I have to I have to,
but it's just soul-destroying.
I'm affecting no one but myself,
so I don't see why I need permission
to do things for myself
when there are people who can change themselves
to look like their favorite cats
and get full-body tattoos and implants
and it's just, are they saner than I am?
(melancholy piano music)
He dumped me.
He didn't break up with, he dumped me.
There's a difference.
I said it isn't because you're embarrassed of me?
He goes oh hell no, no not at all.
It's just the distance
and I don't think I'm ready for a relationship.
Yeah, 22, I guess he wasn't ready to commit.
- [Justin] Ashleigh had hoped
that Cafe Narnia would be a place
where you could escape the real world.
The cafe was also supposed to finance her dream
of becoming a woman.
But over the next year
the harsh reality of business
encroaches upon Ashleigh's plans
and she loses her cafe.
- Selling the cafe was hard.
Just trying to get a buyer.
- [Woman] Did you make any money out of this?
- No, none whatsoever.
- We really watched the disintegration of Narnia with her
over six months which she just gave up,
mentally, she still went every day
but totally gave up in her head.
She had no idea financially what was happening,
and Lindsay and his wife sort of took her aside
and said you've got about one more month
before we go bankrupt, we need to sell.
- [Justin] Did she sell it for not much money?
- They sold it for less than they needed,
they now have debt to clear.
- [Justin] Wow so she's got that debt
alone to finance
before she can even think about
having any surgery or anything.
Despite having lost her business,
Ashleigh is still dreaming
about traveling to Thailand
to have gender reassignment surgery.
- [Ashleigh] Oh that looks like a hole.
- [Justin] It looks real doesn't it?
- It does, well I presume.
- [Justin] I realized that we've never talked
about what the operation actually involved,
and I'm curious to find out
how much Ashleigh knows.
You're hospitalized for about six days,
so you need to pay for a hotel for the rest of your time.
- Oh I see, 'cause you can't fly obviously.
- [Justin] No but also,
you can't even go to the toilet afterwards.
- Oh my God.
- [Justin] And so you have a catheter
that has to get changed and cleaned,
and then after a few days
you can go to the toilet
but they want to keep you coming daily for check-ups.
- Yeah fair enough.
- [Justin] 'Cause you've got stitches that are healing
and it's pretty major surgery.
(ominous music)
- I don't understand a lot of these terms.
- [Justin] Well you should do some research.
- [Ashleigh] God that's so fascinating,
I've never really sat like this
and thought about it to such a degree.
- [Justin] Like what?
- Sort of like,
I've accepted being a woman,
but I haven't got there yet, if that makes sense.
- [Justin] Another one.
- I know I'm so anti defining me being transgender,
but until I become a woman I'm transgender.
And it does define me
in so much more of a large way
than as little as I'd like to think it does.
I think I need to focus on being transgender
and admit, okay I'm transgender
and this is what I've got to do.
You know how I say
oh but I'm just a woman now,
but really I'm not.
I have to admit,
I've totally gone about it entirely the wrong way.
I'm transgender until I become a woman.
Give me this month and see what happens.
(jazzy music)
(cheering)
(kids cheering)
- [Ashleigh] Alright, we're coming up to our final guest
for the evening and it's Tonya Lewis, yay.
- [Justin] Just before Ashleigh sold Narnia,
her friends Maria and Brian
filmed a chat show at the cafe,
which Ashleigh hosted.
- Go Ash.
- [Justin] Their ultimate goal
is to get the program played on regional TV.
But six months on,
the couple is still editing the show in their spare time
even though Ashleigh has since disappeared
from their lives.
- Wide.
We're not part of her life by her choice anymore.
I rang her for quite a while
and then when she stopped returning my calls,
I stopped ringing.
- [Justin] So when you watch this, do you miss her?
- Yeah.
- Like crazy.
- How many years have we known each other now?
Roughly just throw them out there,
oh God I'm ashamed to know it.
Do we dare talk about it?
- This is beautiful.
- Tanya's lesbian experience ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you very much, yes.
- You were very manly back then.
You were.
- I was exactly like this I swear to God.
- She was Graham, back then.
- [Ashleigh] The good old times.
(water running)
- I was just sort of like in the shower one day
and I thought, going out
I always wondered if I was being judged first
on a tranny as opposed to a person,
and I don't like that.
And then I just thought about it
it's like why can't I just be both?
Why can't I just be a male's body
with a female brain?
It's actually accepting
that I am a female trapped in a male's body,
but being totally accepting of being in a male's body.
- [Justin] Were you not comfortable trying to be a woman?
- I was, but it always such the effort,
because I've got the frame of a male,
I had facial hair of a male.
If I'd have gotten rid of it all,
if I'd had the op,
I would always still feel like,
am I a convincing female, you know?
I don't know if I could've come to terms with that.
- [Justin] The morning that Ashleigh realized
surgery wasn't an option,
he immediately stopped taking the female hormones
that he'd been on for over four years
and went back to living as a man.
- She was successfully accepted as a woman
in all of her social circles.
But she was still so terribly unhappy,
particularly in relationships.
So terribly, terribly lonely,
and felt like there was no one who would accept her
with a penis as a woman.
It was such a shock,
I ran into her and she said,
oh by the way I'm a man.
- I'm not distancing myself
because I don't like them or anything
it's just that I'm not the person
who they really probably fell in love with as a friend.
- She's in a tough spot,
I think socially she's in a tough spot.
She has her own identity to sort out.
- Yeah maybe.
I think if she had the money
at the time when she was most excited about it,
it would've happened.
- Everything in me at the time
did want to be a woman.
But the way I'm feeling right now
I'm glad I've never had the money for it,
because I would regret it, I would.
- [Justin] So why do you think you were so adamant,
so adamant that you were a woman.
- I know.
- [Justin] That you were gonna do this,
you were gonna go through it. - I was so adamant
I was a woman
because I do have the mind of a woman.
And therefore I must be a woman.
But as I said, I just came to a realization
that's like, but it doesn't mean I have to change
in any way to be who I want to be.
- [Justin] Here's an idea for you.
- Go on.
- [Justin] This is something I thought, I wondered if...
- 'Cause you've always doubted it, haven't you?
Haven't you?
I dunno.
- [Justin] That you're a woman.
- Or that I wanted to do it.
- [Justin] I've often doubted that you were gonna
go through with it, yes.
_ 'Cause I always thought,
why aren't I like all those other trannies
who were so I hated the,
the day it comes off will be the happiest day of my life,
and things like that,
and I just thought,
would it be the happiest day of my life?
- [Justin] Could it be
that you felt it was more normal
or would feel better to be a woman with a man,
than a man with a man,
and that's where you were going
with thinking.
- Do I think it would be better
to be a woman with a man
as opposed to a man with a man?
- [Justin] And that's why you wanted to become a woman?
- Probably, yeah.
'Cause I wanted men to find me attractive,
and I thought the most obvious way
is to become female.
- [Maria] I'm really worried about her at the moment.
I feel like she's really adrift.
I feel like she's on a really self-destructive path
with the amount of men that she's seeing.
(phone beeping)
- [Justin] So the men that you're having sex with now,
do you think they see you as a gay man?
- I don't know, I really don't know,
but that doesn't bother me
'cause they're attracted to me,
so whatever I'm doing,
me being myself is attractive to them.
- [Justin] And are they gay?
- Um straight, apparently.
Bi?
No gay.
No, no gay.
If there was to be a gay,
I'd prefer a straight acting male.
I don't like effeminate people,
I'm not attractive to women or effeminate men.
- [Justin] I can't help but have a feeling
that there's a degree of internalized homophobia in you.
- No not necessarily, no.
I don't class myself as a gay male as such,
which probably people are saying
but no you must be
because you're now a boy
and you're having sex with boys.
It's like well that's fine
but I've still got the mind of a female.
It's never been a sexuality issue.
I've always been attracted to men as a female
if that makes sense.
- [Justin] Well that's what a lot of gay men
might say, too.
What are your dreams now?
- I don't really have any.
- [Justin] Where do you think you'll be
in ten year's time?
- [Ashleigh] I have no idea, none.
- [Justin] Where would you like to be?
- I don't know, I don't know.
(seagulls calling)
- [Justin] It's another six months
until I hear from Ashleigh again,
but when I do,
he's sounding a lot more positive,
and looking increasingly masculine.
- Now that I'm a little bit further on and stuff
it's like whoa, I'm so glad I didn't
because I feel like I've gotten back to myself now.
Mum was just over the moon,
'cause yes, my baby boy's back.
Because it always uncomfortable for mum,
because she just didn't understand.
Everyone's far more comfortable with me like this.
I think it's because they feel like I'm more at ease.
People are like, you've done the right thing.
Perhaps they're right it's like,
yeah I'm glad I didn't go through it all
and become a woman
because I shudder to think,
'cause once you do it you can't go back
and if I made this sort of epiphany afterwards,
shit, what was I to do?
- [Justin] Ashleigh is back
working in a cafe,
and is surrounded by a new collection of friends,
many of whom identify as gay.
- I know isn't it good?
Now I realize almost like,
it was an alter-ego that I was living every day
and that was I think unhealthy.
A lot of people don't have this problem
of trying to discover themselves
or figure out exactly what they are.
Well those look like breasts, don't they?
He's from the white ghetto.
- [Justin] Is there a big difference
in the type of men that write to you know?
- Ay, no men are men.
Pretty much the same.
A lot of men use this as like a hookup thing.
But then there are sincere people out there
but there are a lot of weirdos too.
Like I said,
I don't like to think of myself as a weirdo,
like a lot of people obviously are.
- [Justin] Why do you have such a problem
with the idea of being gay?
- I don't now,
now that I realize I'm just an effeminate gay man
I suppose, with very large female characteristics.
And the more that I am like this,
the more I'm actually really able
to accept that I'm gay believe it or not.
I'm a man who likes men.
I was always called she as a little boy growing up
and stuff like that,
and it just sort of stuck with me I guess.
Maybe it confused a little gay boy.
- [Justin] Have you had any gay role models in your life
when you were growing up, at all?
- No, no, I've got gay friends,
I wouldn't call them role models,
they're just friends.
- [Justin] When you were a boy
or when you were growing up
did you ever know any gay people
who are older that could've been a role model.
- No, never.
- [Justin] Gay people are kind of a little bit invisible
in this town aren't they?
There's no gay bars and there's no sort of...
- No, no, it's very like,
or not redneck, it's just very kiwi.
But yeah no, I'm just a gay man.
- [Justin] Does this surprise you?
- Yes, but at the same time,
it's just so easy.
Have I just taken the longest road round
to admit I'm gay?
Probably.
♪ This life's awesome this life's great ♪
♪ Waking up man I can't wait ♪
♪ 'Cause every day just keeps getting better ♪
♪ This life rules man yep you said it ♪
♪ God I love just being alive ♪
♪ I could live a million times ♪
♪ I'm happy to be here I really am ♪
♪ This is the best time I've ever had ♪
♪ This life's amazing ♪
♪ Oh my God it's incredible ♪
♪ If you asked me to live again ♪
♪ I'd say you bet I will ♪
♪ This life's awesome this life's great ♪
♪ Waking up man I can't wait ♪
♪ 'Cause every day just keeps getting better ♪
♪ This life rules man yep you said it ♪
♪ God I love just being alive ♪
♪ I could live a million times ♪
♪ I'm happy to be here I really am ♪
♪ This is the best time I've ever had ♪